On November 5th, America made itself clear that the agenda and campaign ran by the Democratic Party was not sufficient enough to justify their continued role as leaders of the country.
So admittedly I did not read this article slowly…. There are many things unbiblical about it, way too much time to dive in and correct it….
Principals:
1-God/Jesus Christ is sovereign- He will accomplish His ends. Biblical references are replete- think Abraham, Isaac, Moses, even Judas and King Darius the Mede. Just simply reading the Bible will reveal Providence.
2 - yes, God can use a head turn - it really is that simple, don’t try to overthink God. He uses the simple to make fools of the worldly wise (so called).1 Corinthians 1:27
3 - Trump is not a savior - but does God choose to use people? Of course, see King nebuchadnezzar as an example of unsaved for His purpose. See the book of Malachi.
4 - what is the point? Repent and be saved from eternal damnation. Believe in Jesus Christ so that you may be saved today - you do not know when your end may arrive.
Peter 3:9: God does not want anyone to perish, but that all should reach repentance.
1 John 1:9: If we confess our sins, God will forgive us and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
2 Chronicles 7:14: God says that if his people humble themselves, pray, seek his face, and turn from their wicked ways, he will forgive their sin and heal their land.
Mark 1:15: God commands people to repent and believe the gospel.
Psalm 51: King David's psalm of repentance.
Romans 2:4: God's kindness leads people to repentance.
The Lord speaks:
Isaiah 46:8–13:
8 “Remember this and stand firm,
recall it to mind, you transgressors,
9 remember the former things of old;
for I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is none like me,
10 declaring the end from the beginning
and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, ‘My counsel shall stand,
and I will accomplish all my purpose,’
11 calling a bird of prey from the east,
the man of my counsel from a far country.
I have spoken, and I will bring it to pass;
I have purposed, and I will do it.
12 “Listen to me, you stubborn of heart,
you who are far from righteousness:
13 I bring near my righteousness; it is not far off, and my salvation will not delay;
I will put salvation in Zion, for Israel my glory.”
Matthew 5:45: God is sovereign over the physical world
Psalm 66:7: God is sovereign over the affairs of nations
Galatians 1:15: God is sovereign over human destiny
Luke 1:52: God is sovereign over human successes and failures
Psalm 4:8: God is sovereign over the protection of His people
Matthew 10:29: God is sovereign over everything, including the fall of a sparrow
Ephesians 1:11: God works out all things according to His will
Acts 17:28: "In him we live and move and have our being"
Colossians 1:17: "In him all things hold together"
Hebrews 1:3: "Sustaining all things by his powerful word"
Proverbs 16:9: "In his heart a man plans his course, but the Lord determines his steps"
Psalm 115:3: "Our God is in heaven; he does whatever pleases him"
Proverbs 16:33: "The lot is cast into the lap, but its every decision is from the LORD"
The word "providence" comes from the Latin word providentia, which means foresight or making provision beforehand.
There are no accidents nor coincidences.
Salvation by Jesus, and grace to maybe not have to live under the unGodly leftist administration at this time of the democratic regime is the current point. But Jesus will accomplish God’s purpose.
Excellent question: but as a primary point…look at Christ’s death, at the hands of ungodly people, God chose that perfect plan and Jesus willingly gave himself up at the cross to save us - while we were all unGodly and didn’t deserve it.
Look at King Nebuchadnezzar as God using him for good but humbling him before salvation as well. Others like Pharaoh did not repent but were used by God for His purposes for discipline of God’s people too.
“In Habakkuk’s day, God’s purpose was to bring judgment on Judah for their idolatry. Babylon was the instrument of His judgment (cf. Isaiah 10:5).
God’s revelation caused Habakkuk to then ask how God could use a nation wickeder than Judah to judge Judah (1:12-2:1). God’s response was a promise that He would later punish Babylon as well (2:2-20). In the end, Habakkuk could only acknowledge the Lord’s perfect wisdom; the prophet ends with a song of praise in chapter 3.”
"I have heard no less than two dozen commentators express their belief that...it was God who saved Trump...I think this is wrong and potentially dangerous." I have a different stance. It's not one's belief or philosophizing about why we are here or how things happen, either through a guided hand or by random chaos, that is dangerous. It's a narcissistic belief that only the thoughts in one's own head that matters, and any destructive actions taken following those narcissistic thoughts are justified. It's a bit of irony that you find the religious explanations dangerous, while referring to an act of violence that was perpetrated by someone not described as religious. I have nasty experiences from those that have justified their deceitful and evil actions on their religiosity, but I've also experienced some of the same from non-religious who use the "anything goes" justification. I've also had good interactions in life from both religious and non-religious. I have a belief in free will and that everything we experience is due to that free will, so I don't believe God saved Trump, but those who want to explain to themselves that the bullet was guided by God's hand don't cause me any fear. It's up to us to be guided by a belief in the sanctity of each person, and we must keep making choices that lead us to a better place.
Not one comment the same. Nice and civil mostly. I don’t think essentially said anything about belief or non-belief. Thought provoking. People tend to forget that there has been discourse about the word since the first pages left the room where people with pens performed the work of the printing press.
I think the "God must be an American" view is in fact believed (conveniently?) by some, but more are simply applying the concept that a just God would of course want the world to emulate the fairest system (though that of course also assumes that America's is indeed the fairest, at least on a mass-population scale - which I personally believe, but which does not account for the opinions of many throughout the world who would disagree).
Regarding religion, you obviously open a can of worms with many of the faithful, who of course feel the need to defend their beliefs, but in doing so often miss the point of the message, which is frequently not a knock on their belief systems at all but just a question about where and when they're applied. I wrote this some time back, which was a little too long for consideration at Wrong Speak, but I'm curious what you think:
Does God intervene in the elections of other countries-or just America's?
Before 1776, (I assume relatively short in God-years) which country did God sponsor before America? England, perhaps?
If God has a will and intervenes in elections, you can't say we have the "fairest system" if God has his thumb on the scale. His sponsorship or intervention circles back into a logical feedback loop.
Consider the possibility that God showed the whole world that He is actually in charge in that moment. Some people put Trump on a pedestal too high, some hate him too much. Reality is someone else is actually in control and a reminder was given that the whole world saw. That is what people need to see and focus on first instead of politics.
God does not pull triggers and does not turn heads anymore than God killed 6 million people in Nazi Germany or 40,000 in Gaza. Humans have been left to act of their own volition and to forge their fate as individuals, societies, a species. As a religious species, we may guide actions by reference to spiritual principles and practices, and live in awe of the great mystery of existence. But misplacing human acts of barbarism, brilliance, fortune or misfortune with the direct handiwork of the divine dislodges the responsibilities we bear as human actors in a material world.
What is factual though is that having just been shot at and wounded, Trump showed the colour of his courage, stood up and pumped his fist into the air …
That is a moment of truth, you cannot fake that, the shooter could have been still out there or a Plan B one too …
Trump was never in combat, but the assassination event is like combat and that is where who you are manifests.
That act of courage lost the elections for the Democrats and the Never Trumpers …
This act must be considered in context with the whole of the man and his actions, intentions. And, I agree that single moments, captured or rendered with photographs, video, or art, are very powerful symbols and motivators.
So... You woke up one morning and decided the best possible use of your time and talents was to attack the sincere religious beliefs of your fellow citizens... Frankly, THAT seems more "dangerous" and unAmerican than people giving thanks to God for a blessing, whether we can be certain he intervened directly or not.
I didn’t read this as an attack on belief in God at all. Or certainly not an attack on believers. I read it more as a caution against zealotry. More like a “What if Superman were a Nazi? “ type of thought experiment. It’s odd to me that you were offended. It is certainly Ok to thank God for this blessing but to deify the blessed? Not so sure.
The article essentially says "There is NO God. There are NO miracles. No matter how insanely improbable this circumstance was, the ONLY valid explanation is chance and physics. Anyone who thinks otherwise is DANGEROUS. And anyway, even if it was your God, he sucks because if I were God I would have chosen a different and better way to intervene."
Which is a REALLY odd take to have on the survival of the President from an attempted assassination, and political violence in general, that the people who need to be called DANGEROUS aren't the shooter, aren't the other known Iranian assassination teams in the country not yet apprehended, aren't the politicians and media who essentially asked for this with their heated rhetoric and incitement of hatred, aren't even the many people who immediately took to social media to announce how personally disappointed they were that the shot missed... But rather that the truly DANGEROUS people are the ones who have been praying for Trump's safety and believe they've just seen their prayers answered.
The "deifying the person" angle is even more ignorant and nonsensical. Per the Bible, EVERY leader over us is chosen by God, though whether that's a blessing, a punishment, or just more of a "I gave you what you asked for, now let's see if you learn this time from how badly that turns out" situation is usually open to interpretation. No matter which candidate won the election, EVERYTHING is considered part of His plan. The entire premise of the article is attacking a straw man while insulting believers in the process.
Your questions about the why and how of the God's 'intervention' in the incident are meaningless. He does what He wants to, how He wants to. The serious question is; Is Trump divinely ordained as our leader, and I see nothing in the circumstances or his character to suggest Trump is The Chosen One. Trump got lucky with a sudden turn of his head, just the same way I was lucky the time I tripped while carrying a knife. Yes, God allowed it. No, I (and Trump) are not specially blessed. Life happens.
So admittedly I did not read this article slowly…. There are many things unbiblical about it, way too much time to dive in and correct it….
Principals:
1-God/Jesus Christ is sovereign- He will accomplish His ends. Biblical references are replete- think Abraham, Isaac, Moses, even Judas and King Darius the Mede. Just simply reading the Bible will reveal Providence.
2 - yes, God can use a head turn - it really is that simple, don’t try to overthink God. He uses the simple to make fools of the worldly wise (so called).1 Corinthians 1:27
3 - Trump is not a savior - but does God choose to use people? Of course, see King nebuchadnezzar as an example of unsaved for His purpose. See the book of Malachi.
4 - what is the point? Repent and be saved from eternal damnation. Believe in Jesus Christ so that you may be saved today - you do not know when your end may arrive.
https://www.gotquestions.org/tower-of-Siloam.html
Peter 3:9: God does not want anyone to perish, but that all should reach repentance.
1 John 1:9: If we confess our sins, God will forgive us and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
2 Chronicles 7:14: God says that if his people humble themselves, pray, seek his face, and turn from their wicked ways, he will forgive their sin and heal their land.
Mark 1:15: God commands people to repent and believe the gospel.
Psalm 51: King David's psalm of repentance.
Romans 2:4: God's kindness leads people to repentance.
The Lord speaks:
Isaiah 46:8–13:
8 “Remember this and stand firm,
recall it to mind, you transgressors,
9 remember the former things of old;
for I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is none like me,
10 declaring the end from the beginning
and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, ‘My counsel shall stand,
and I will accomplish all my purpose,’
11 calling a bird of prey from the east,
the man of my counsel from a far country.
I have spoken, and I will bring it to pass;
I have purposed, and I will do it.
12 “Listen to me, you stubborn of heart,
you who are far from righteousness:
13 I bring near my righteousness; it is not far off, and my salvation will not delay;
I will put salvation in Zion, for Israel my glory.”
God has a special purpose for Israel but all people can be saved. https://www.gotquestions.org/who-can-be-saved.html
Just a few examples of sovereignty:
Psalm 103:19: God is sovereign over the universe
Matthew 5:45: God is sovereign over the physical world
Psalm 66:7: God is sovereign over the affairs of nations
Galatians 1:15: God is sovereign over human destiny
Luke 1:52: God is sovereign over human successes and failures
Psalm 4:8: God is sovereign over the protection of His people
Matthew 10:29: God is sovereign over everything, including the fall of a sparrow
Ephesians 1:11: God works out all things according to His will
Acts 17:28: "In him we live and move and have our being"
Colossians 1:17: "In him all things hold together"
Hebrews 1:3: "Sustaining all things by his powerful word"
Proverbs 16:9: "In his heart a man plans his course, but the Lord determines his steps"
Psalm 115:3: "Our God is in heaven; he does whatever pleases him"
Proverbs 16:33: "The lot is cast into the lap, but its every decision is from the LORD"
The word "providence" comes from the Latin word providentia, which means foresight or making provision beforehand.
There are no accidents nor coincidences.
Salvation by Jesus, and grace to maybe not have to live under the unGodly leftist administration at this time of the democratic regime is the current point. But Jesus will accomplish God’s purpose.
Excellent question: but as a primary point…look at Christ’s death, at the hands of ungodly people, God chose that perfect plan and Jesus willingly gave himself up at the cross to save us - while we were all unGodly and didn’t deserve it.
Look at King Nebuchadnezzar as God using him for good but humbling him before salvation as well. Others like Pharaoh did not repent but were used by God for His purposes for discipline of God’s people too.
https://www.gotquestions.org/does-God-use-evil.html
“In Habakkuk’s day, God’s purpose was to bring judgment on Judah for their idolatry. Babylon was the instrument of His judgment (cf. Isaiah 10:5).
God’s revelation caused Habakkuk to then ask how God could use a nation wickeder than Judah to judge Judah (1:12-2:1). God’s response was a promise that He would later punish Babylon as well (2:2-20). In the end, Habakkuk could only acknowledge the Lord’s perfect wisdom; the prophet ends with a song of praise in chapter 3.”
Why would God select an obviously ungodly sinner as the human to lead the country to salvation?
Who are we to question God? Why did God choose King David? He was obviously and ungodly sinner as a human.
"I have heard no less than two dozen commentators express their belief that...it was God who saved Trump...I think this is wrong and potentially dangerous." I have a different stance. It's not one's belief or philosophizing about why we are here or how things happen, either through a guided hand or by random chaos, that is dangerous. It's a narcissistic belief that only the thoughts in one's own head that matters, and any destructive actions taken following those narcissistic thoughts are justified. It's a bit of irony that you find the religious explanations dangerous, while referring to an act of violence that was perpetrated by someone not described as religious. I have nasty experiences from those that have justified their deceitful and evil actions on their religiosity, but I've also experienced some of the same from non-religious who use the "anything goes" justification. I've also had good interactions in life from both religious and non-religious. I have a belief in free will and that everything we experience is due to that free will, so I don't believe God saved Trump, but those who want to explain to themselves that the bullet was guided by God's hand don't cause me any fear. It's up to us to be guided by a belief in the sanctity of each person, and we must keep making choices that lead us to a better place.
Not one comment the same. Nice and civil mostly. I don’t think essentially said anything about belief or non-belief. Thought provoking. People tend to forget that there has been discourse about the word since the first pages left the room where people with pens performed the work of the printing press.
I'm not eating the stew
Hi Jud. Couple things:
I think the "God must be an American" view is in fact believed (conveniently?) by some, but more are simply applying the concept that a just God would of course want the world to emulate the fairest system (though that of course also assumes that America's is indeed the fairest, at least on a mass-population scale - which I personally believe, but which does not account for the opinions of many throughout the world who would disagree).
After Butler, I had similar thoughts:
https://www.wrongspeakpublishing.com/p/searching-for-a-different-perspective
Regarding religion, you obviously open a can of worms with many of the faithful, who of course feel the need to defend their beliefs, but in doing so often miss the point of the message, which is frequently not a knock on their belief systems at all but just a question about where and when they're applied. I wrote this some time back, which was a little too long for consideration at Wrong Speak, but I'm curious what you think:
https://zephareth.substack.com/p/religion-in-modern-times
Either way, ballsy essay - but that's really the point, isn't it?
Hope life in Brasil is treating you and Yasmin well. ZL
Thanks, Zeph. I will look into the articles.
A few questions that come to mind as well;
Does God intervene in the elections of other countries-or just America's?
Before 1776, (I assume relatively short in God-years) which country did God sponsor before America? England, perhaps?
If God has a will and intervenes in elections, you can't say we have the "fairest system" if God has his thumb on the scale. His sponsorship or intervention circles back into a logical feedback loop.
Yes. In other words, it's all bullshit.
Consider the possibility that God showed the whole world that He is actually in charge in that moment. Some people put Trump on a pedestal too high, some hate him too much. Reality is someone else is actually in control and a reminder was given that the whole world saw. That is what people need to see and focus on first instead of politics.
God does not pull triggers and does not turn heads anymore than God killed 6 million people in Nazi Germany or 40,000 in Gaza. Humans have been left to act of their own volition and to forge their fate as individuals, societies, a species. As a religious species, we may guide actions by reference to spiritual principles and practices, and live in awe of the great mystery of existence. But misplacing human acts of barbarism, brilliance, fortune or misfortune with the direct handiwork of the divine dislodges the responsibilities we bear as human actors in a material world.
God is unnecessary as an explanation …
What is factual though is that having just been shot at and wounded, Trump showed the colour of his courage, stood up and pumped his fist into the air …
That is a moment of truth, you cannot fake that, the shooter could have been still out there or a Plan B one too …
Trump was never in combat, but the assassination event is like combat and that is where who you are manifests.
That act of courage lost the elections for the Democrats and the Never Trumpers …
This act must be considered in context with the whole of the man and his actions, intentions. And, I agree that single moments, captured or rendered with photographs, video, or art, are very powerful symbols and motivators.
So... You woke up one morning and decided the best possible use of your time and talents was to attack the sincere religious beliefs of your fellow citizens... Frankly, THAT seems more "dangerous" and unAmerican than people giving thanks to God for a blessing, whether we can be certain he intervened directly or not.
I didn’t read this as an attack on belief in God at all. Or certainly not an attack on believers. I read it more as a caution against zealotry. More like a “What if Superman were a Nazi? “ type of thought experiment. It’s odd to me that you were offended. It is certainly Ok to thank God for this blessing but to deify the blessed? Not so sure.
The article essentially says "There is NO God. There are NO miracles. No matter how insanely improbable this circumstance was, the ONLY valid explanation is chance and physics. Anyone who thinks otherwise is DANGEROUS. And anyway, even if it was your God, he sucks because if I were God I would have chosen a different and better way to intervene."
Which is a REALLY odd take to have on the survival of the President from an attempted assassination, and political violence in general, that the people who need to be called DANGEROUS aren't the shooter, aren't the other known Iranian assassination teams in the country not yet apprehended, aren't the politicians and media who essentially asked for this with their heated rhetoric and incitement of hatred, aren't even the many people who immediately took to social media to announce how personally disappointed they were that the shot missed... But rather that the truly DANGEROUS people are the ones who have been praying for Trump's safety and believe they've just seen their prayers answered.
The "deifying the person" angle is even more ignorant and nonsensical. Per the Bible, EVERY leader over us is chosen by God, though whether that's a blessing, a punishment, or just more of a "I gave you what you asked for, now let's see if you learn this time from how badly that turns out" situation is usually open to interpretation. No matter which candidate won the election, EVERYTHING is considered part of His plan. The entire premise of the article is attacking a straw man while insulting believers in the process.
God is sovereign and regardless of what you or anyone else think about Trump, God can use him to accomplish HIS plan for America.
Your questions about the why and how of the God's 'intervention' in the incident are meaningless. He does what He wants to, how He wants to. The serious question is; Is Trump divinely ordained as our leader, and I see nothing in the circumstances or his character to suggest Trump is The Chosen One. Trump got lucky with a sudden turn of his head, just the same way I was lucky the time I tripped while carrying a knife. Yes, God allowed it. No, I (and Trump) are not specially blessed. Life happens.