One of the easiest - and laziest - weapons in our public political discourse is the use of whataboutisms. Generally speaking, they are no excuse for behavior that is subject to scrutiny - they simply justify it. Just because someone else has done something wrong does not give us license to do the same thing without accountability.
All true. But given they are our options one has to ignore their personal shortcomings and, now that we’ve lived through 4 years of each as president, ask themselves under whom was the US more prosperous, the world safest, and our quality of life higher. Anyone who objectively considers those things should have no problem deciding who to vote for. Unless of course you’re an “asylum seeker” in which case things are really looking up for you…
I get the perspective and don't want to sink morality and want to restore it. However, the examples used have very different moral underpinnings. A father showering with his daughter is not only creepy it transcends the boundaries between a father and child. That is far different from having sex with a woman. The accuser for Biden in the assault reported it right away and was brushed off. For Trump there wasn't a similar allegation to authorities yet the media has put brush on. It is the same with documents. Biden was a VP and Trump a president. One had authority - though possibly abused - and the other none. I gave money to Biden's campaign thinking he would be sane. I then received an earful from someone whose family is from a country near Ukraine. He told me of the corruption which proved to be true but has been buried by the media. At some point, if your child's teacher repeatedly condemns the conduct of your student while turning a blind eye to the conduct of another student, you will rightly complain.
Neither of them is my guy, so whatever. This is just more reason not to support either legacy political party, but the fact is that Biden has done far worse in his 3+ years than Trump did in 4, by every objective metric. It doesn't mean I'll vote for Trump; it's more like noticing the sun usually rises in the east.
Whataboutism seems to be akin to or a result of doctrines of moral equivalence. The final argument of people who know they are wrong but won't change their mind is, "Everyone is entitled to their opinion and mine is as good as yours."
It's a mistake to characterize the objection as 'it's ok now because it was ok before.' The objection is to what Scott Alexander calls an isolated demand for rigor. When you ask someone to concede a point which is politically inconvenient, it is appropriate for that person to consider whether the same standard is used when the person demanding such rigor finds it politically inconvenient.
Examples to the contrary abound, but the most stark one recently was the difference between the treatment of the 2020 BLM riots and the J6 riot. When the left came howling for accountability regarding political violence in 2021, the right was correct to object that the standard was new, and in fact what they'd asked for the previous year and gotten nothing but derision. https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/08/14/beware-isolated-demands-for-rigor/
Great point of discussion. It is also, maybe obviously, a natural consequence of a two-party binary system. If one candidate has some problem with taxes, point to the other guy's problem with taxes. The American public, worn down, exasperated, will likely not follow up on the details; the moral equivalencies will not be inspected. "They both have some noise about tax problems" will be the take away. It will become a wash. Political Whataboutisms flourish inside the binary to start the conversation back at zero, thus reinforcing the "goodness" of the party itself.
As for double standards inside the party line, there exist infinite examples of hypocrisy.
I hate the word 'whataboutism.' It drives me up the wall which I think was probably the original intended purpose. Yes, it is a way to justify tasteless and offensive behaviors. It upends the common phrase, "two wrongs don't make a right." But it's more than this. It goes much deeper. Using a 'whataboutism', in political discussion for example, is really a roundabout way of calling someone a hypocrite. How can one possibly support a politician in their own party but hold a different standard for one in the opposite party? You can't unless you're a true hypocrite. It is very much the double standard we see being applied to law in current ongoing cases. What's good for some is not good for the others. What some are held to account for, others having committed same actions are overlooked. This is a basic rundown of 'whataboutisms' and what they break down to.
One thing that is critical about 'whataboutisms' is that you better make damn sure your 'whataboutism' is accurate and that you haven't missed any relevant information that may render your 'whataboutism' nothing short of slander, liable or just plain propaganda. So, the key to using a 'whataboutism' is knowing what you're talking about. With that, I'm going to address accuracies in 'whataboutisms.'
Contrary to your assertion that we've left ourselves two bad choices for President, I will disagree. In fact, we have the best man for the job standing right there. That man is President Trump. Frankly, anyone who stood guilty of the many lies and propaganda that the left has thrown at Trump in their effort to overthrow him from day one (actually, before inauguration as they were cooking up an impeachment prior to his taking the reins), that person would be a truly horrible person. If you don't understand constitutional law, you end up spouting a bunch of nonsense, as seem here. The fact is, there are no 'whataboutisms' here. Also good to keep in mind, we're watching Joe Biden, a man who has spent literally his entire working life in government in some capacity, daring to accuse Trump for anything whatsoever. Facts to hold on to is that JB is a notorious liar who was booted from earlier presidential runs, JB is the man who sponsored the 1994 crine bill, JB is the man who speaks disparagingly about Indians working in 7-11s AND, JB owns, or did own, Water Island directly nextdoor to Jeffrey Epstein. Should I mention his real estate holdings in Ukraine and what special forces discovered underneath that property? (That's an entirely different conversation). There are no 'whataboutisms' here.
The left is going to be faced with some very big problems. Just as they cooked up Christine Blasey Ford, they too, cooked up E Jean Carroll, the woman who very candidly admitted to have never before been raped but when it became politically expedient, well, she came up with television program narrative to which there was no video, no witness, and no memory on her part on dates. Convenient! She will never see a penny of ill-gotten gains. Stormy Daniel's, also, very candidly denied ever having any type of relationship with Trump. Oh, but political expediency. A federal judge threw out her case and ordered that she reimburse Trump lost and wasted legal fees. Michael Avvenatti, democrats new favorite presidential hopeful, or was, is sitting in prison for 20 years for taking both Daniel's and Nike for a ride. What we know of Biden, we know through open testimony and very credible sources. No 'whataboutisms' here.
As President of the US, Trump had every legal right to possess classified documents. A vice president does mot have a legal right to possess classified documents. No 'whataboutisms' here.
On taxes, Trump very honestly and with integrity made it clear that he manages his taxes no different than Hillary or any of the many ultra wealthy democrats. Truth be known, with Trump's wealth, he is required to pay his taxes ahead of time quarterly. If there were a problem, it would have come up. And I don't mean by way of typical Democrat lies & propaganda. Worth noting, 9 of the top 10 most wealthy Americans are democrats. Trump isn't even on that list. No 'whataboutisms' here.
January 6th was an orchestrated attempt to create the illusion of an insurrection. We know different from video footage, and testimony. The entire thing was carried out by Democrats & the FBI along with capitol police and the DC Mayor. There was no insurrection. No 'whataboutism' here. Anyone is free to disagree with this but the facts are the facts.
Again, it is critically important to be well versed on what allegations are made when it cones to 'whataboutisms' because if they are used without good foreknowledge, whoever is using the 'whataboutism' doesn't really look all that informed and definitely carrying an agenda.
All true. But given they are our options one has to ignore their personal shortcomings and, now that we’ve lived through 4 years of each as president, ask themselves under whom was the US more prosperous, the world safest, and our quality of life higher. Anyone who objectively considers those things should have no problem deciding who to vote for. Unless of course you’re an “asylum seeker” in which case things are really looking up for you…
I get the perspective and don't want to sink morality and want to restore it. However, the examples used have very different moral underpinnings. A father showering with his daughter is not only creepy it transcends the boundaries between a father and child. That is far different from having sex with a woman. The accuser for Biden in the assault reported it right away and was brushed off. For Trump there wasn't a similar allegation to authorities yet the media has put brush on. It is the same with documents. Biden was a VP and Trump a president. One had authority - though possibly abused - and the other none. I gave money to Biden's campaign thinking he would be sane. I then received an earful from someone whose family is from a country near Ukraine. He told me of the corruption which proved to be true but has been buried by the media. At some point, if your child's teacher repeatedly condemns the conduct of your student while turning a blind eye to the conduct of another student, you will rightly complain.
The question is if you had to leave your kids with one of them to babysit. Who would you choose?
I know who I would.
Neither of them is my guy, so whatever. This is just more reason not to support either legacy political party, but the fact is that Biden has done far worse in his 3+ years than Trump did in 4, by every objective metric. It doesn't mean I'll vote for Trump; it's more like noticing the sun usually rises in the east.
Ain't life in a declining empire fun?
Whataboutism seems to be akin to or a result of doctrines of moral equivalence. The final argument of people who know they are wrong but won't change their mind is, "Everyone is entitled to their opinion and mine is as good as yours."
Those people are always leftists.
It's a mistake to characterize the objection as 'it's ok now because it was ok before.' The objection is to what Scott Alexander calls an isolated demand for rigor. When you ask someone to concede a point which is politically inconvenient, it is appropriate for that person to consider whether the same standard is used when the person demanding such rigor finds it politically inconvenient.
Examples to the contrary abound, but the most stark one recently was the difference between the treatment of the 2020 BLM riots and the J6 riot. When the left came howling for accountability regarding political violence in 2021, the right was correct to object that the standard was new, and in fact what they'd asked for the previous year and gotten nothing but derision. https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/08/14/beware-isolated-demands-for-rigor/
Great point of discussion. It is also, maybe obviously, a natural consequence of a two-party binary system. If one candidate has some problem with taxes, point to the other guy's problem with taxes. The American public, worn down, exasperated, will likely not follow up on the details; the moral equivalencies will not be inspected. "They both have some noise about tax problems" will be the take away. It will become a wash. Political Whataboutisms flourish inside the binary to start the conversation back at zero, thus reinforcing the "goodness" of the party itself.
As for double standards inside the party line, there exist infinite examples of hypocrisy.
I hate the word 'whataboutism.' It drives me up the wall which I think was probably the original intended purpose. Yes, it is a way to justify tasteless and offensive behaviors. It upends the common phrase, "two wrongs don't make a right." But it's more than this. It goes much deeper. Using a 'whataboutism', in political discussion for example, is really a roundabout way of calling someone a hypocrite. How can one possibly support a politician in their own party but hold a different standard for one in the opposite party? You can't unless you're a true hypocrite. It is very much the double standard we see being applied to law in current ongoing cases. What's good for some is not good for the others. What some are held to account for, others having committed same actions are overlooked. This is a basic rundown of 'whataboutisms' and what they break down to.
One thing that is critical about 'whataboutisms' is that you better make damn sure your 'whataboutism' is accurate and that you haven't missed any relevant information that may render your 'whataboutism' nothing short of slander, liable or just plain propaganda. So, the key to using a 'whataboutism' is knowing what you're talking about. With that, I'm going to address accuracies in 'whataboutisms.'
Contrary to your assertion that we've left ourselves two bad choices for President, I will disagree. In fact, we have the best man for the job standing right there. That man is President Trump. Frankly, anyone who stood guilty of the many lies and propaganda that the left has thrown at Trump in their effort to overthrow him from day one (actually, before inauguration as they were cooking up an impeachment prior to his taking the reins), that person would be a truly horrible person. If you don't understand constitutional law, you end up spouting a bunch of nonsense, as seem here. The fact is, there are no 'whataboutisms' here. Also good to keep in mind, we're watching Joe Biden, a man who has spent literally his entire working life in government in some capacity, daring to accuse Trump for anything whatsoever. Facts to hold on to is that JB is a notorious liar who was booted from earlier presidential runs, JB is the man who sponsored the 1994 crine bill, JB is the man who speaks disparagingly about Indians working in 7-11s AND, JB owns, or did own, Water Island directly nextdoor to Jeffrey Epstein. Should I mention his real estate holdings in Ukraine and what special forces discovered underneath that property? (That's an entirely different conversation). There are no 'whataboutisms' here.
The left is going to be faced with some very big problems. Just as they cooked up Christine Blasey Ford, they too, cooked up E Jean Carroll, the woman who very candidly admitted to have never before been raped but when it became politically expedient, well, she came up with television program narrative to which there was no video, no witness, and no memory on her part on dates. Convenient! She will never see a penny of ill-gotten gains. Stormy Daniel's, also, very candidly denied ever having any type of relationship with Trump. Oh, but political expediency. A federal judge threw out her case and ordered that she reimburse Trump lost and wasted legal fees. Michael Avvenatti, democrats new favorite presidential hopeful, or was, is sitting in prison for 20 years for taking both Daniel's and Nike for a ride. What we know of Biden, we know through open testimony and very credible sources. No 'whataboutisms' here.
As President of the US, Trump had every legal right to possess classified documents. A vice president does mot have a legal right to possess classified documents. No 'whataboutisms' here.
On taxes, Trump very honestly and with integrity made it clear that he manages his taxes no different than Hillary or any of the many ultra wealthy democrats. Truth be known, with Trump's wealth, he is required to pay his taxes ahead of time quarterly. If there were a problem, it would have come up. And I don't mean by way of typical Democrat lies & propaganda. Worth noting, 9 of the top 10 most wealthy Americans are democrats. Trump isn't even on that list. No 'whataboutisms' here.
January 6th was an orchestrated attempt to create the illusion of an insurrection. We know different from video footage, and testimony. The entire thing was carried out by Democrats & the FBI along with capitol police and the DC Mayor. There was no insurrection. No 'whataboutism' here. Anyone is free to disagree with this but the facts are the facts.
Again, it is critically important to be well versed on what allegations are made when it cones to 'whataboutisms' because if they are used without good foreknowledge, whoever is using the 'whataboutism' doesn't really look all that informed and definitely carrying an agenda.
'Whataboutisms' are annoying!