The election is rapidly approaching and there are still so many subjects to discuss. “Your vote doesn’t matter…except that it does,” “The Imperial Presidency vs.
I remember when NAFTA came to be. I understand the libertarian argument of no tariffs. But we now have items made with slave labor - not all, obviously, but a good many that did at one time include our iPhones. The Indian network WION did a segment on the modern slave labor involved in getting the essential metals, which includes the use of young children, to create electric cars that do not eliminate emissions but do trash the roads with their weight. EVs allow US officials to appear virtuous when it is nothing more than tailpipe environmentalism akin to putting your septic pond on a neighbor's property so you don't have to see or smell it. The mindset of disposing of people seems to have boomeranged back on us. A friend said their condo complex is letting go of a housekeeper of 30 years to save some money, and such duties will be outsourced. She said the amount seemed minimal, and where is the moral duty to a long-time - and now - older employee? Looking at things through a Rene Girard lens, I wonder if the collapse of cultural (and daresay religious) guardrails has just unleashed unmitigated greed with tokens given out through NGOs, with sometimes very well-paid executives? This is all a very long way of saying, I too am skeptical of tariffs but I appreciate the conversation. And I think Trump has a big enough ego that he will abandon the concept if it isn't working unlike the Marxists leaders such as Stalin and Mao who believed the solution to their horrific policies was to double down.
Thanks for the reply and for reading. I think targeted tariffs still serve a purpose and eliminating slave labor is one of them. Of course fining American companies like Apple that willing use slave labor would be a better approach in my mind.
Yes, greed, or at least the primacy of money, seems to be harming society. At one point the prestige of a job was an important factor (i.e. town doctor) but that seems to have faded as money has become the prime motivation of many people. Not without some justification.
That's because Apple can't get the same slave labor in America that they get in China. Not to mention the standards aren't the same in these other countries for production that the USA has. Quality matters as well. You have to take everything into the picture with this topic. Our steel is the strongest for example. Might be able to buy it cheaper elsewhere, but do you want it in products we produce? People knew of all the recalls in Walmart due to the China connection in their health and beauty department they would quit shopping there. I could go on and on about this topic, but will stop.
Good points (and thanks for reading). What you're saying is making my point. Targeted tariffs make sense in some cases (ex. when slave labor is used) and when bringing production back to the States makes sense (ex. quality or if price increases will be minor) however blanket tariffs don't take anything like this into consideration.
You are wasting your time (but I grant it’s yours to waste), Americans are immune to economics. Americans want our politicians to promise the impossible. Auto workers want high paying jobs and American consumers want to buy cheap cars. Americans are mercantilists at heart: “why is there a trade deficit?!” As if that has anything to do with the economy. Every good should be made in the USA and sold at the highest price. Your article brings to mind Frederic Bastiat, who was a great student of economics in France and famously wrote satire on economic protectionism (see his Economic Sophisms). I recommend that everyone read his “Candlemaker’s Petition” and “What is Seen and What is Unseen.”
You sound like the green degrowthers. You will likely suffer their fate, i.e., people will support you in the abstract but then come to hate you when you actually come for *their* iphones.
I understand the example now let’s take it one step further. My new iPhone will cost me $2400 because of tariffs. If you listened to what Trump said, if Apple stops making iPhones in China, no tariff. If they don’t, then my new phone would be the Tesla phone built here in America. You took out the element of consumer choice.
They never do what they say anyway, so banking on what they say seems foolish. I think: Who is coming along with them to DC? We know what the Democrazies have; Trump has learned (I hope). It's obvious the Dems haven't.
Just curious..... one phone call to discuss tariff's and border crashing illegal immigrant convoy is stopped?? Tariff's are useless??? There are many more issues than just business, where tariff's can be a peaceful motivator. Keep following along on the new Trump administration and you will see many more impossible problems magically solved.
If you reread the article again you'll see I didn't say tariffs were useless. Here, I'll save you the time:
"Strategic tariffs, such as those aimed at protecting national security, are a good policy. I’d even go as far as approving Trump’s plan to use them as a negotiating leverage. However, wholesale use of tariffs, such as Trump’s plan to impose a blanket 10% tariff on all imports to the United States, do more harm than good."
Too many voters love whatever "their" side does and hate what the other side does. I'm focused on issues. Tariffs are a useful tool. If used correctly.
The failure of those arguing against tariffs is that they don’t understand that something costing a buck more - when you still have a job - is better than something costing a buck less and your job has been offshored.
If we want a first-world country, we need to pay first-world compensation. This also is true for the pro-illegal immigration nonsense of the Chamber of Commerce. If that means some things cost a bit more, but we have our own jobs and the supply chain is entirely domestic, that’s a feature, not a bug.
All these articles & pundits yakking about higher costs while ignoring the jobs issue are just pulling the wool over the eyes of those not paying enough attention.
I remember when NAFTA came to be. I understand the libertarian argument of no tariffs. But we now have items made with slave labor - not all, obviously, but a good many that did at one time include our iPhones. The Indian network WION did a segment on the modern slave labor involved in getting the essential metals, which includes the use of young children, to create electric cars that do not eliminate emissions but do trash the roads with their weight. EVs allow US officials to appear virtuous when it is nothing more than tailpipe environmentalism akin to putting your septic pond on a neighbor's property so you don't have to see or smell it. The mindset of disposing of people seems to have boomeranged back on us. A friend said their condo complex is letting go of a housekeeper of 30 years to save some money, and such duties will be outsourced. She said the amount seemed minimal, and where is the moral duty to a long-time - and now - older employee? Looking at things through a Rene Girard lens, I wonder if the collapse of cultural (and daresay religious) guardrails has just unleashed unmitigated greed with tokens given out through NGOs, with sometimes very well-paid executives? This is all a very long way of saying, I too am skeptical of tariffs but I appreciate the conversation. And I think Trump has a big enough ego that he will abandon the concept if it isn't working unlike the Marxists leaders such as Stalin and Mao who believed the solution to their horrific policies was to double down.
Thanks for the reply and for reading. I think targeted tariffs still serve a purpose and eliminating slave labor is one of them. Of course fining American companies like Apple that willing use slave labor would be a better approach in my mind.
Yes, greed, or at least the primacy of money, seems to be harming society. At one point the prestige of a job was an important factor (i.e. town doctor) but that seems to have faded as money has become the prime motivation of many people. Not without some justification.
That's because Apple can't get the same slave labor in America that they get in China. Not to mention the standards aren't the same in these other countries for production that the USA has. Quality matters as well. You have to take everything into the picture with this topic. Our steel is the strongest for example. Might be able to buy it cheaper elsewhere, but do you want it in products we produce? People knew of all the recalls in Walmart due to the China connection in their health and beauty department they would quit shopping there. I could go on and on about this topic, but will stop.
Good points (and thanks for reading). What you're saying is making my point. Targeted tariffs make sense in some cases (ex. when slave labor is used) and when bringing production back to the States makes sense (ex. quality or if price increases will be minor) however blanket tariffs don't take anything like this into consideration.
You are wasting your time (but I grant it’s yours to waste), Americans are immune to economics. Americans want our politicians to promise the impossible. Auto workers want high paying jobs and American consumers want to buy cheap cars. Americans are mercantilists at heart: “why is there a trade deficit?!” As if that has anything to do with the economy. Every good should be made in the USA and sold at the highest price. Your article brings to mind Frederic Bastiat, who was a great student of economics in France and famously wrote satire on economic protectionism (see his Economic Sophisms). I recommend that everyone read his “Candlemaker’s Petition” and “What is Seen and What is Unseen.”
> Americans are immune to economics.
They'll care once it affects them.
It is effecting us. We do care.
Also we might learn we don’t need an iphone for $2400. Is it possible we will be happier with less cheap crap?
You might be right, but I'm not sure rolling the dice is the right approach to managing an economy.
I prefer strategic tariffs.
Strategy is not my strong suit.
You sound like the green degrowthers. You will likely suffer their fate, i.e., people will support you in the abstract but then come to hate you when you actually come for *their* iphones.
You are right. My plan is def not practical. It is philosophical….
The problem is that someone is liable to eventually attempt to practically implement your suggestions.
I will be curious to see how it plays out.
So if you can't trust what they're saying they'll do, how are you deciding who to vote for?
I understand the example now let’s take it one step further. My new iPhone will cost me $2400 because of tariffs. If you listened to what Trump said, if Apple stops making iPhones in China, no tariff. If they don’t, then my new phone would be the Tesla phone built here in America. You took out the element of consumer choice.
> if Apple stops making iPhones in China, no tariff.
And an even more expansive iPhone.
They never do what they say anyway, so banking on what they say seems foolish. I think: Who is coming along with them to DC? We know what the Democrazies have; Trump has learned (I hope). It's obvious the Dems haven't.
Just curious..... one phone call to discuss tariff's and border crashing illegal immigrant convoy is stopped?? Tariff's are useless??? There are many more issues than just business, where tariff's can be a peaceful motivator. Keep following along on the new Trump administration and you will see many more impossible problems magically solved.
Cheers
If you reread the article again you'll see I didn't say tariffs were useless. Here, I'll save you the time:
"Strategic tariffs, such as those aimed at protecting national security, are a good policy. I’d even go as far as approving Trump’s plan to use them as a negotiating leverage. However, wholesale use of tariffs, such as Trump’s plan to impose a blanket 10% tariff on all imports to the United States, do more harm than good."
Too many voters love whatever "their" side does and hate what the other side does. I'm focused on issues. Tariffs are a useful tool. If used correctly.
The failure of those arguing against tariffs is that they don’t understand that something costing a buck more - when you still have a job - is better than something costing a buck less and your job has been offshored.
If we want a first-world country, we need to pay first-world compensation. This also is true for the pro-illegal immigration nonsense of the Chamber of Commerce. If that means some things cost a bit more, but we have our own jobs and the supply chain is entirely domestic, that’s a feature, not a bug.
All these articles & pundits yakking about higher costs while ignoring the jobs issue are just pulling the wool over the eyes of those not paying enough attention.
It'll end up costing more than a buck more.
Doesn’t matter. The calculus is the same.