Let’s go Brandon was started after a reporter (knowingly or unknowingly) attributed that to a crowd a race. Mild in comparison to Trump=Hitler, magazine covers showing Trump morphed into Hitler, Kamala proclaiming Trump to be a Fascist, the Atlantic running a story proclaiming the same and on an on. The left and dems are now running on fear of loss of power as Trump ekes to an advantage in the polls. What happened to all of the “joy”? That was short lived. Here is a good companion article to this one. https://open.substack.com/pub/sashastone/p/violence-just-before-the-voting-starts?r=l2zts&utm_medium=ios
I wish you would have quoted Donald Trump’s hateful speech, or noted the “Fuck Biden” road signs and bumper stickers that preceded the similar words used by the left, or noted that violent rhetoric and physical assault on an election process is fear-based or worse. Fear and Hate are a currency of politics on either end if the spectrum. Be honest about it, and perhaps we can reduce the role of hatred in the life if the nation.
As noted in the article, there are some on the right who also deal in hate, but it is more a matter of individual actions as opposed to being the result of group think.
Dave, thank you for your reply. To offer a view from here on the center-left: the hate and fear seem very much to be a matter of group think by MAGA. Maybe that is perception, maybe that is reality. I think about the “Let’s Go Brandon” slogan which became somewhat of a mantra, and the “own the libs” mindset which emanated from talk radio the past 20 years, the flag flying on huge poles on the back of pick up trucks (which feels very threatening) and which I have personally experienced on social media platforms when posting about issues such as gun control or George Floyd’s death. I don’t think hatred is a prevailing culture of the liberals as a whole - not at all. The fear, however, is real. To us, Trump’s behaviors, now and anticipated, are akin to a repressive dictatorship rather than a constitutional republic. That spectre seems very real, as he talks about retribution, wholesale deportation of immigrants legal as well as illegal, and migrstion toward systems like Orban’s. Please receive my comments as an effort to discuss with engagement, rather than to debate with hostility. If our political conversations were more discussion than debate, and we could hear and acknowledge each other’s fears and interests, I am certain the outcome would be consensus on many of not most of the issues that divide us so starkly today. By trade I am a professional mediator - I have witnessed for decades that when people actually talk directly, they find ways to co-exist and move forward in a productive way.
I certainly believe no one should be castigated for his or her opinion. However, from my perspective, it appears that much of the hate coming from the left is a consequence of media lies and misrepresentation. When Trump was in office, there was not the rampant "lawfare" that has occurred during Biden's administration. Additionally, as president, Trump's actions were, with a few exceptions, intended to benefit the country. I can't think of much that Biden (or his handlers) have done that's been beneficial. The primary focus of this administration appears to be maintaining an open border as a means of refilling the populations that are leaving some states. I can't think of a more corrupt administration than Biden's.
Whatever you've seen from the right, I've seen from the left. that's more a function of social media than anything else. Most liberals and most conservatives are much closer to the center than the people who rail on social media. As for Trump, he's from New York City and his rhetoric is typical of a "New Yawker". I grew up there and have heard the same type of speech countless times. Trump has just never accepted the fact that outside of "the city" that type of in-your-face speech is deemed to be offensive. If you're familiar with New York City banter, insults fly, and then everyone moves on. Trump is far from being perfect, but in my estimation, he will do far more good for the country than Harris will. Like Biden, she will be just another puppet.
“sometimes, and “individual personalities” are soft acknowledgments of a harder, deeper, broader problem. We will have to agree to disagree, in this forum. This topic requires an actual conversation to flesh out I think, rather than the back and forth of social media commentary. But op eds, commentary and limited online discussion hopefully open up thinking and conversing in the worlds of readers. Unfortunately, we all tend to live in echo-chambers most of the time.
To the contrary! Saying that the attendees are “garbage” is terribly wrong, as is calling opponents deplorables. People sometimes do misspeak or say insensitive or cruel things, particularly when emotions are running high. Sometimes they are taken out of context or don’t initially realize the impact of their words. The key is to acknowledge the hurtful speech and amend it, and not repeat it. My issue with your article is that it asserts that hatespeech is the province of the left. The right is not absolved from similar criticism. The examples of Trump’s violent, insensitive and demeaning rhetoric are so vast and consistent that to editorialize that hatespeech is “the currency of the left”requires critical response. I don’t mean to harangue you about this. I just feel strongly that your opinion as expressed on Wrongspeak is well, wrong. And I hope that our conversation has opened up the issue a bit.
You conveniently ignored the sentence in the article that stated, "That's not to say that those on the right don't sometimes use the same currency, but that’s more the result of individual personalities, not groupthink." As an example, your first response to the mention of Biden's "garbage" comment was to say he "misspoke". There's no question that Trump spews a lot of hate speech. To a degree, I can't blame him because he has been under constant attack since becoming a nominee in 2015. On the other hand, he should put his emotions aside and respond in a more appropriate manner. The same can be said of quite a few nationally prominent Democrats, hence my "currency" comment. The left is quick to criticize Trump's comments and just as quick to excuse the comments of Pelosi, Schumer, Biden, Harris and a number of others. Hate speech is not the province of the left, it just appears to be it's preferred currency.
Sure I can. He did what he was told to do. That was my original point. Sorry, but I have a difficult time believing that Biden was anything other than a puppet. As for Biden not being able to put a coherent sentence together, do a Google search for "Biden incoherent" and you'll find at least 10 pages of entries- including this one from CNN of all places- https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/06/politics/biden-abc-interview-analysis/index.html
Well, I think a few things you and I can agree on is that he is not running for President. That it is important to vote. That after the election neither side can rest.
Agreed- and as for the hate coming from the left- Biden's latest spew, as reported by The New York Times- "Mr. Biden tried to denounce that racist language in a video call with Hispanic supporters on Tuesday night. But he garbled his words, saying: 'The only garbage I see floating out there is his supporters' ".
Trump's comment was anything but a call for state-sanctioned murder. His statement, according to CNN was, “She’s a radical war hawk. Let’s put her with a rifle standing there with nine barrels shooting at her, OK? Let’s see how she feels about it, you know, when the guns are trained on her face.” He was clearly making a metaphorical reference to how she would respond if she was actually on the front lines, instead of being securely tucked away from harm. I don't expect you to agree with that, just as I don't agree with your statement that Biden "misspoke" when he referred to Trump supporters as "garbage". How can Biden's comment be in reference to the comedian when he said, “The only garbage I see floating out there is his supporters"? Does the comedian have supporters because he is also running for office? Although you will disagree with it, take a look at the USA Today, Opinion: Biden calls Trump supporters 'garbage.' It fits mold of Dems insulting opponents- https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/columnist/2024/10/30/biden-garbage-comment-trump-harris-fascist/75934801007/
Yes, he clearly misspoke and meant to refer to the “comedian” who spewed hate from the right. Hatred in politics is omnidirectional, and always unfortunate.
I hope you will notice something missing from this expression - hate. The primary currency of the left is humanism. Yes, there is more than a fair share of fear-based hatred being distributed throughout the political spectrum. Your thesis in this article presents, in my view, an incomplete picture of what motivates the non-MAGA citizen and what they seeks for America.
Well, I was an Assistant DA in Manhattan in the 1980’s so am familiar with the type. I found most people in NYC to be intelligent, worldly, caring and yes, loud at times. I don’t think Trump is just a typical person with a NYC affect. You and I have very disparate views of Biden, Trump, and what has been done for or done to America. On social media there isn’t an opportunity to truly listen. Only conversations heal.
One can look at the major legislation Biden and Harris enacted despite a hostile Congress. One can look at Biden’s serious response to the Covid crisis, and stopping the death spiral of it by distributing the vaccine ao aggressively and confronting the problem, not pretending it would just go away or that people could consume disinfectants to kill it. Look at the stock market. The rebuilding and strengthening of NATO alliances. The reduction of unemployment, the infrastructure development across the country; the acknowledgement that climate change is real and non-carbon energy development is vital to the health of the planet; the effort to retore equity to our tax structure so that billionares, corporations and the super-wealthy pay fair rates. He acted as well to secure bipartisan legislation to fix the border crisis. He has supported Ukraine and Israel; he has rejected the movement toward illiberal democracy. Biden’s policies support the middle class, rather than the industrial elite and burgeoning indistrial oligarchy. It has been proven by economists and social scientists that the “trickle down” economics of Reganism and Trumpism do not work, except to center wealth upward away from the middle class. Biden’s policies recognize that and work to strengthen the economic foundation of real
life humans struggling to make ends meet. Now, I agree that many big problems remain and Biden has not been perfect by any means. But your premise was - “Biden has not done one thing” and that he is mentally incompetent. What I have listed here is a partial answer to your challenge to me - tell me what Biden has done or could possibly do.
I had only a moment to respond to you yesterday. Perhaps it was inappropriate or off-putting to insert the word “Period.” I take responsibility for that. And, your premise was that Biden throughout his Presidency “struggled to put a coherent sentence together.” Clearly that is a hyperbolic exaggeration. So yes, I had a reaction.
Let's see if I have this straight- After stating, "I have witnessed for decades that when people actually talk directly, they find ways to co-exist and move forward in a productive way." you now attempt to stop the conversation by stating, "Biden has done an excellent job. Period." Certainly you can't be that hypocritical and certainly you can't be that delusional about Biden. Or maybe not.
Let’s go Brandon was started after a reporter (knowingly or unknowingly) attributed that to a crowd a race. Mild in comparison to Trump=Hitler, magazine covers showing Trump morphed into Hitler, Kamala proclaiming Trump to be a Fascist, the Atlantic running a story proclaiming the same and on an on. The left and dems are now running on fear of loss of power as Trump ekes to an advantage in the polls. What happened to all of the “joy”? That was short lived. Here is a good companion article to this one. https://open.substack.com/pub/sashastone/p/violence-just-before-the-voting-starts?r=l2zts&utm_medium=ios
I wish you would have quoted Donald Trump’s hateful speech, or noted the “Fuck Biden” road signs and bumper stickers that preceded the similar words used by the left, or noted that violent rhetoric and physical assault on an election process is fear-based or worse. Fear and Hate are a currency of politics on either end if the spectrum. Be honest about it, and perhaps we can reduce the role of hatred in the life if the nation.
As noted in the article, there are some on the right who also deal in hate, but it is more a matter of individual actions as opposed to being the result of group think.
Dave, thank you for your reply. To offer a view from here on the center-left: the hate and fear seem very much to be a matter of group think by MAGA. Maybe that is perception, maybe that is reality. I think about the “Let’s Go Brandon” slogan which became somewhat of a mantra, and the “own the libs” mindset which emanated from talk radio the past 20 years, the flag flying on huge poles on the back of pick up trucks (which feels very threatening) and which I have personally experienced on social media platforms when posting about issues such as gun control or George Floyd’s death. I don’t think hatred is a prevailing culture of the liberals as a whole - not at all. The fear, however, is real. To us, Trump’s behaviors, now and anticipated, are akin to a repressive dictatorship rather than a constitutional republic. That spectre seems very real, as he talks about retribution, wholesale deportation of immigrants legal as well as illegal, and migrstion toward systems like Orban’s. Please receive my comments as an effort to discuss with engagement, rather than to debate with hostility. If our political conversations were more discussion than debate, and we could hear and acknowledge each other’s fears and interests, I am certain the outcome would be consensus on many of not most of the issues that divide us so starkly today. By trade I am a professional mediator - I have witnessed for decades that when people actually talk directly, they find ways to co-exist and move forward in a productive way.
I certainly believe no one should be castigated for his or her opinion. However, from my perspective, it appears that much of the hate coming from the left is a consequence of media lies and misrepresentation. When Trump was in office, there was not the rampant "lawfare" that has occurred during Biden's administration. Additionally, as president, Trump's actions were, with a few exceptions, intended to benefit the country. I can't think of much that Biden (or his handlers) have done that's been beneficial. The primary focus of this administration appears to be maintaining an open border as a means of refilling the populations that are leaving some states. I can't think of a more corrupt administration than Biden's.
Whatever you've seen from the right, I've seen from the left. that's more a function of social media than anything else. Most liberals and most conservatives are much closer to the center than the people who rail on social media. As for Trump, he's from New York City and his rhetoric is typical of a "New Yawker". I grew up there and have heard the same type of speech countless times. Trump has just never accepted the fact that outside of "the city" that type of in-your-face speech is deemed to be offensive. If you're familiar with New York City banter, insults fly, and then everyone moves on. Trump is far from being perfect, but in my estimation, he will do far more good for the country than Harris will. Like Biden, she will be just another puppet.
“sometimes, and “individual personalities” are soft acknowledgments of a harder, deeper, broader problem. We will have to agree to disagree, in this forum. This topic requires an actual conversation to flesh out I think, rather than the back and forth of social media commentary. But op eds, commentary and limited online discussion hopefully open up thinking and conversing in the worlds of readers. Unfortunately, we all tend to live in echo-chambers most of the time.
That’s spin on hatespeak, Dave.
I don’t expect you to agree with me, but I do seek some self-awareness from MAGA proponents of their own use of violent, demeaning rhetoric.
Yet you seek no self-awareness from liberals on "their own use of violent, demeaning rhetoric".
To the contrary! Saying that the attendees are “garbage” is terribly wrong, as is calling opponents deplorables. People sometimes do misspeak or say insensitive or cruel things, particularly when emotions are running high. Sometimes they are taken out of context or don’t initially realize the impact of their words. The key is to acknowledge the hurtful speech and amend it, and not repeat it. My issue with your article is that it asserts that hatespeech is the province of the left. The right is not absolved from similar criticism. The examples of Trump’s violent, insensitive and demeaning rhetoric are so vast and consistent that to editorialize that hatespeech is “the currency of the left”requires critical response. I don’t mean to harangue you about this. I just feel strongly that your opinion as expressed on Wrongspeak is well, wrong. And I hope that our conversation has opened up the issue a bit.
You conveniently ignored the sentence in the article that stated, "That's not to say that those on the right don't sometimes use the same currency, but that’s more the result of individual personalities, not groupthink." As an example, your first response to the mention of Biden's "garbage" comment was to say he "misspoke". There's no question that Trump spews a lot of hate speech. To a degree, I can't blame him because he has been under constant attack since becoming a nominee in 2015. On the other hand, he should put his emotions aside and respond in a more appropriate manner. The same can be said of quite a few nationally prominent Democrats, hence my "currency" comment. The left is quick to criticize Trump's comments and just as quick to excuse the comments of Pelosi, Schumer, Biden, Harris and a number of others. Hate speech is not the province of the left, it just appears to be it's preferred currency.
Dave, can you agree Biden has done something?
Sure I can. He did what he was told to do. That was my original point. Sorry, but I have a difficult time believing that Biden was anything other than a puppet. As for Biden not being able to put a coherent sentence together, do a Google search for "Biden incoherent" and you'll find at least 10 pages of entries- including this one from CNN of all places- https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/06/politics/biden-abc-interview-analysis/index.html
Well, I think a few things you and I can agree on is that he is not running for President. That it is important to vote. That after the election neither side can rest.
Agreed- and as for the hate coming from the left- Biden's latest spew, as reported by The New York Times- "Mr. Biden tried to denounce that racist language in a video call with Hispanic supporters on Tuesday night. But he garbled his words, saying: 'The only garbage I see floating out there is his supporters' ".
And Trump calls for state-sanctioned murder of Liz Cheney.
Trump's comment was anything but a call for state-sanctioned murder. His statement, according to CNN was, “She’s a radical war hawk. Let’s put her with a rifle standing there with nine barrels shooting at her, OK? Let’s see how she feels about it, you know, when the guns are trained on her face.” He was clearly making a metaphorical reference to how she would respond if she was actually on the front lines, instead of being securely tucked away from harm. I don't expect you to agree with that, just as I don't agree with your statement that Biden "misspoke" when he referred to Trump supporters as "garbage". How can Biden's comment be in reference to the comedian when he said, “The only garbage I see floating out there is his supporters"? Does the comedian have supporters because he is also running for office? Although you will disagree with it, take a look at the USA Today, Opinion: Biden calls Trump supporters 'garbage.' It fits mold of Dems insulting opponents- https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/columnist/2024/10/30/biden-garbage-comment-trump-harris-fascist/75934801007/
Yes, he clearly misspoke and meant to refer to the “comedian” who spewed hate from the right. Hatred in politics is omnidirectional, and always unfortunate.
I hope you will notice something missing from this expression - hate. The primary currency of the left is humanism. Yes, there is more than a fair share of fear-based hatred being distributed throughout the political spectrum. Your thesis in this article presents, in my view, an incomplete picture of what motivates the non-MAGA citizen and what they seeks for America.
I thank you for hearing my comments.
Well, I was an Assistant DA in Manhattan in the 1980’s so am familiar with the type. I found most people in NYC to be intelligent, worldly, caring and yes, loud at times. I don’t think Trump is just a typical person with a NYC affect. You and I have very disparate views of Biden, Trump, and what has been done for or done to America. On social media there isn’t an opportunity to truly listen. Only conversations heal.
Do you actually think Biden did anything? How does a person who struggles to put a coherent sentence together make policy decisions?
One can look at the major legislation Biden and Harris enacted despite a hostile Congress. One can look at Biden’s serious response to the Covid crisis, and stopping the death spiral of it by distributing the vaccine ao aggressively and confronting the problem, not pretending it would just go away or that people could consume disinfectants to kill it. Look at the stock market. The rebuilding and strengthening of NATO alliances. The reduction of unemployment, the infrastructure development across the country; the acknowledgement that climate change is real and non-carbon energy development is vital to the health of the planet; the effort to retore equity to our tax structure so that billionares, corporations and the super-wealthy pay fair rates. He acted as well to secure bipartisan legislation to fix the border crisis. He has supported Ukraine and Israel; he has rejected the movement toward illiberal democracy. Biden’s policies support the middle class, rather than the industrial elite and burgeoning indistrial oligarchy. It has been proven by economists and social scientists that the “trickle down” economics of Reganism and Trumpism do not work, except to center wealth upward away from the middle class. Biden’s policies recognize that and work to strengthen the economic foundation of real
life humans struggling to make ends meet. Now, I agree that many big problems remain and Biden has not been perfect by any means. But your premise was - “Biden has not done one thing” and that he is mentally incompetent. What I have listed here is a partial answer to your challenge to me - tell me what Biden has done or could possibly do.
I had only a moment to respond to you yesterday. Perhaps it was inappropriate or off-putting to insert the word “Period.” I take responsibility for that. And, your premise was that Biden throughout his Presidency “struggled to put a coherent sentence together.” Clearly that is a hyperbolic exaggeration. So yes, I had a reaction.
Dave, that’s the question I ask about Trump many times a day. Biden has done an excellent job. Period.
Let's see if I have this straight- After stating, "I have witnessed for decades that when people actually talk directly, they find ways to co-exist and move forward in a productive way." you now attempt to stop the conversation by stating, "Biden has done an excellent job. Period." Certainly you can't be that hypocritical and certainly you can't be that delusional about Biden. Or maybe not.
You now resort to insults.
I think we have come to the reality of your position.
At the very least they’re the world champions of hypocrisy
When nasty words and actions come from the right it's hate and ignorance . When they come from the left it's righteous indignation.